Ep # 133: Connecting Content to Business Outcomes with Nick Wassenberg (CEO, Cludo)

Adil Saleh 0:03 Hey. Greetings, everybody. This is Adil again, your host at Hyperengage podcast, like every time I try to, ever since we started late 2020, 478, months later, we tried really hard to make sure that we get guests that are well screened in terms of, you know, the categories that they're serving and the problems that they're they're solving at scale, apart from, like all these, you know, Y Combinator back companies and these startups and these multi billion dollar companies leaders that we had in the past, which was good, and now the time has changed. The focus has changed, and now we're more focusing on the products that are emerging, and there are solving unique problems, even in the day of AI, which is solving the problem is become so easy, but solving the hard problems is still the hardest. So today, we are trying to explore Cludo their journey and how they've impacted this category of Adil Saleh 1:01 You know, helping enterprise companies with with site search and having relevant information for marketing teams and enabling their teams to drive more revenue and sales. So thank you very much. Nick Uzo, who's the founder of other founder and chief executive officer of Cludo, being a long player for about like a decade now. So thank you very much, Nick, for taking the time today. Nick Wassenberg 1:24 Yeah, great to be here. It seems like with the conversations we've already had, this will be a fun one. So looking forward to it. Adil Saleh 1:31 Absolutely likewise. So Nick, I know that you've been a marketing guy all these years, and of course, marketing has changed over the time. When you started, excluded a lot of a lot of thought process might be different than what it is. Now, I know that, like starting off, you never know what's coming next, and you know how you're going to pivot over the time, but I'm sure you must have said some sort of vision for the product or the problem that you're solving. So how did it come along in the beginning, like an inception Cludo? Nick Wassenberg 2:00 Yeah, yeah. I guess to level set, just as a little bit of a side note, I actually joined Cludo just about two years under two years ago. The company has been around for about 10 years, so I've kind of jumped into the CEO seat after the company existed, which was a huge benefit. We already have 700 plus customers worldwide. We have a team of folks that's building pipeline and has customer engagement. So we have some amazing customers and amazing customer stories to tell. So I got the benefit of all that, but I also joined at a time when AI generative, AI was really getting more and more into the mainstream, I would say. And so the the thing that we've seen change is having the original vision. Our very first customer was a higher education university, and what we saw then, what the company saw then, was the same as some of the things that we see now. There's these sites that have 1000 10,000 more than that, pages of content, and to expect the average visitor to find that and find a reliable answer to whatever their question is in that moment, it's really challenging problem. You have to set up crawlers and engines. And so we did that. Cludo did that in a in a SaaS application that made it, you know, much, much simpler, much, much less expensive and much more powerful than an alternative would have been to build, build it yourself at the enterprise level. So that's our that's our product. What we've seen over time from from the content perspective, I think, is a change in a shift into Nick Wassenberg 3:28 the need for people to really understand and drive business outcomes with their content, like it's not enough to simply have a listing of content that is an afterthought. More and more brands recognize that, Nick Wassenberg 3:46 yes, there's a there, if you're a manufacturer, there's a dealer relationship, there's localized presences, but there's also a lot of people like you and I that are doing a lot of their research and analysis before talking to sales, before talking to a dealer. In this situation, they want the comment before they want to have a full understanding and come to the table with much, much more information. But that's really changed, and it changes the the aspect of how you build websites, how you build customer journeys, how you think about experiments, all of those things have changed fairly rapidly. And I think Nick Wassenberg 4:16 the ability to create content with less friction, which is, I think, a big part of what Gen AI does, either on the brainstorming side or the analysis side the research side, all of these tools are helping remove some of the monotonous or friction based tasks to help marketing and marketing and content people really be more creative and be more inspirational. So Nick Wassenberg 4:39 all of that being said, it is a we're at a pivotal time for people that are developing and launching content, I believe, and connecting those to business results. So part of what we work with our customers on every Adil Saleh 4:50 day, amazing, amazing. I was also there's a huge, you know notion that is, of course, building the generative guys really smart trading content. Adil Saleh 5:00 And conversational intelligence is going big. There's so many platforms serving support tier one, tier two has completely, you know, replaced by AI, and also the sales and, you know, sales intelligence, all of this. How do you see it on an efficiency level in your category, when it comes to having the relevant information, having the contextual qualitative information based off of these qualitative data measures. How is AI playing a part in terms of efficiency, in terms of the outcomes that is generating? Nick Wassenberg 5:34 Yeah, I think it's fairly fast moving. I'll give you a couple of data points that are interesting. Kind of case studies for us is in particular, it covers the support use case, for sure, that's a pretty common use case for us, but we have some, some of our customers have a traditional site search experience where it's a little bar with the magnifying glass, and then when you search, you get a list of results, and you can filter, and you can do all sorts of Magic in terms of understanding the results. You can cater to whatever you're looking for. And then the other thing that we help our customers with is more of a prompt based experience, so they are a summarized result, and then a series of prompts, you can have, kind of a conversation. We're tapping into open AI at this point to do that, to surface that prompt based experience, again, using only the content in on a customer's knowledge base or on a customer's Support Center, whatever that might look like for us. What we've seen there are cases where there's still 95% of users of visitors to the site that need support. 95% are still going to the traditional search bar, but 5% are going and taking that kind of like more modern experience. My assumption, which is we're still building a kind of data and business case around it, is that those tend to be either more potentially younger people that are just more like really adopters in terms of some of the new gen AI technology, or they're they come from a specific profile and persona. I think the case, the fact that we're already in the case where, and that's just one example. There's other other examples where it's more like a 25% AI Gen AI experience to 75% traditional site search from what the visitors engage with. So it varies. I think we're still, we're still seeing more traffic flow through a traditional kind of site search experience again, these are large content sites, and people sometimes are repeat visitors. If it's a bank or if it's a government, municipality site, that's another common use case for us. But there is a shift. There are some people that are gravitating towards that new experience, and I think what we've like chatgpt being one of the fastest adopted products, digital products ever. Like, there is something there that people are gravitating towards. How long that'll stick in? How How long like, can I envision my mom using that? Maybe not, but can I envision my nephew? Yeah, 100% All right, so it depends on the site. It depends on the type of visitor and the type of outcome that you're trying to drive, but from a support perspective, those are some of the early signals that we've seen over, you know, the past year or so, and we're building and trying to understand that behavior. I think we were the team and I in Minneapolis here were just that a one of the leading dxp platforms kind of roadmap show because we partner with CMSs and dxps across the board, we were there for this one. And one of the big key trends, of course, is experimentation and personalization. So I think when I think about website, people trying to drive outcomes on their website, whether it's support cost reduction or support ticket satisfaction, or its lead conversion, or whatever those key kind of performance indicators are for for our customers, one of the things that we see time and time again is like connecting content to that is really important, and connecting content to that in a meaningful way means experimenting. It means having the ability to provide experiences that match where the expectations are. So I think we're in a we're in a fascinating time in terms of that skew. Will we see more customers that look 95 to five? Or will we see more of a shift to 5050 I think that'll that'll play out. It's playing out in real time with all of the tools that are out there on the consumer side. So it's, I don't know, it seems like there's a lot to unpack there, but I think the name of the game for most marketers is going to continue to be experiments and give yourself optionality when it comes to content matching business outcomes. Adil Saleh 9:39 Yeah, just like, you know, this is the moment that this agent AI started, like Salesforce had their own agent and HubSpot, and then, of course, following the category, every CRM is trying, or every chat platform is trying, every email support platform is trying to have their own agents, or CO pilots or CO agents. So how, what's your. Viewpoint on this. I know that it's so relevant in your industry as well, because a lot of this can be done by an ensign task to it to an AI, which is like an agent. And you can have like, multiple roles. You can give different, different roles to agents. I was seeing. There's another product, I don't recall the name. They have like five or seven different agents, like agents, agents for churn indicator, agent for risk analysis, agent for health scoring, all of this. So I know that it's, it's all of this is behind the same technology, but the engineering is different. You're giving different prompting. You're training them differently. So how do you see eternally for you? Nick Wassenberg 10:39 Yeah, part of the patterns that we see that I think are developing but but are not there is an element to consumer behavior and website visitor behavior, which is what we pay attention to and what we track and what we see patterns in there is an element like is, if I am a say, I'm a prospective student at a university. I'm going to have a few things, few questions that I have no matter like that are very, very common. I'm going to want to know about housing. I'm going to want to know about cost, for sure. I'm going to want to know the application process. So do those all need specific agents? Do they all need specific models that can cater to those agents, that can provide a great experience? I don't really think so. I don't think somebody takes, takes, like, jumps in and says, Today I am a person that needs to know cost, and tomorrow I'm going to come back and I'm a person that needs to know something else that we don't. I think human beings have this blended it's what we're good at, is like blending all of these decision trees together in our brains. So I think there will be, I think it's highly likely that there will be kind of category, a place for category type agents and a case for industry type agents, meaning there may be a higher ed prospective student experience that you want to cater to, if you own, if you're the, the owner and manager of that website, or part of the web team for a big league University, yeah, you'll have, you'll probably have some sort of catered very intelligent and like resources for professors, trustworthy, like wing wing man, wing person, you know, some, something like that, that's catering to a specific persona, I think that's likely how long it takes to get there, or what that looks like exactly, I think is to be determined. What we see is like, and what we've seen over time is like, there are, there are use cases that blend themselves really, really well to making sense of all of the content. So if you think about if I'm a prospective student, and I have some sort of idea of what I want to study. I may actually need a little bit of guidance to say I'm interested in finance. Well, here's accounting, and here's managerial accounting, and here's, like the CPA route. Like there's all these, we call them, or we refer to them as, like program finders, but it's really a guided kind of like experience that helps people understand their options using the content on the site without needing a guidance counselor. So like, again, that's, that's the experience that people want. And then a lot of universities are blending in pieces of the student experience within that. So if I'm interested in finance, I want to know there's a finance club. I'm not necessarily searching for, is there a finance club? But I'm searching for that category. So it becomes a blended kind of, like, here's what you should know, here's some recommended things. Like, I think that's that's important, and again, catering to that, that idea of, there's a persona, and then you as as they have an experience on your site, you learn more and more about what they're interested in. And you can, using AI, you can make more of an intelligent set of recommendations. So that's, I think that's the direction a lot of sites, direction a lot of sites are going, especially those with larger content, how that blends into some of the the the sites that have a little bit less content, I think they need to the the potential pathways just are narrower to start with, so you can cater a little bit more tightly to that. So I think there's, there's things to pursue there. And, yeah, it's just a it like trying to predict behavior. I think can lead we in a lot of companies out there, Google as an example. I'm sure they talk about the innovators dilemma all the time there, where we have this thing that we do really well, but the market made the presentation in a different direction. Yeah. So, like, what, like, how do we as a business navigate that? So we think about that too, Adil Saleh 14:26 absolutely. Also, you know, thinking from from sales organizations, a lot of these, you know, sales platform, sales intelligence, pipeline management, platform prospecting tools that they're using. I think after, like in the past, I would say 12 to 14 months with this, like new update by chat, GPT, and there's some new llms coming. And then recently, the Chinese llms coming on, relevantly, bidding on the cost and everything. There are so many tools that are coming, like, account, exactly. And, you know, these SDRs, PDRs, they are overwhelmed with tooling and stacks, yeah, and they're always told, like, Oh, you gotta do more with less. You You know, you're like, three people, you're like, this much of COVID. You gotta meet it every week, every month. And it's so hard for them to, you know, make sure they get enough opportunities from, especially from the website visits, because marketing, in some cases, marketing is doing well because they've got a bigger budget, you know. So this, this is, this is coming from the heart of a lot of sales objectives as well. So how do you see this problem of prospecting, and how this platform and this talking about Cludo can enable, you know, prospecting, prospecting process, and of course, a sales organization to be more relevant, having all this information at your disposal, and have more opportunities than before, than just relying on marketing teams to have, you know, product qualified leads and all of those. Of course, marketing is an analog of sales, but again, there's a huge gap when it comes to operational relationships between the sales in that are also technical, not old school, like they're sharing notes in notion or Google Docs or signing on sales or perhaps spot. So how is it more number one tech enabled, and how you can do that skill and being more efficient when it comes. Nick Wassenberg 16:26 Yeah, I think, like for I have a few the team probably gets slightly annoyed with how I how I frame these, but I have a few go to, like, sayings that I repeat, like, kind of mantras or something. And one of them comes from a guy named Dave Kellogg. He is a relatively well known blogger. He's run several companies and been successful in sales and marketing, and one of his like, key phrases that stuck with me at least, is that marketing exists to make sales easier, period. And I think there's a lot of simplicity and truth to that, but I think that the key thing is that that actually is changing over time. Like marketing existing to make sales easier doesn't mean they're make creating brochures or cleaning up slide decks or something like that. It's actually quite the opposite of that. It's telling sales where to go and fish right, and also telling them what to say, telling like catering the message to the market that the salesperson is pointed towards. From our perspective, one of the things that I think is a true grounding principle for us and for me, just philosophically, when it comes to sales, marketing is truly understanding the customer. And one of the one of the things that I emphasize with people in that our team thinks about a lot is the fact that you have a large content website, 1000 pages or more. There are it's like there was a study done in 43% of people that go to that website will go directly to Site Search to find something instead of navigating so that's 43% on average. Every site is different. Some are way less. Some are some are more. So there's there's variation, for sure, everybody sees something slightly different, but on average, it's a high number. And when I, when I arrived at Cludo and when I started to talk to our customers, I was very surprised at the amount of people that were going to use this little bar on the instead of using what I, as a marketing person thought of as like, here's the customer journey. Okay, we got to think really hard about the navigation bar. We got to think, okay, they step here. There's the call to action. They're the next step, and they're going to go here. Oftentimes they just want an answer and they want to find it. So the tie back to the website and the sales experience and equipping sales with information which helps them understand customer needs. Why? Like, one of the key pieces of value that we provide to our customers is we can show you what people are typing into that search bar. Like, literally they have something they want, the website visitor marketing pays a bunch of money to get there, and then they literally type in what they're looking for, whether it's a part number. If you're a manufacturer, it could be a program. If you're a university. Could be some resident service, like trash pickup. If you're government, it could be a CD, like a certificate of deposit. If you're a bank, all these different combinations of things. Sales should know what those key kind of like highest priority things are how they talk about them, how they phrase them, what content they as a salesperson might need to put in their outbound strategy and refine that. So I think there's, there's a layer of understanding that sometimes is missing. You get enough. You get some detail from like keyword searches. You get tons of detail from having discovery calls with prospects. All of those things matter. So I'm not suggesting that our, like our data, is the only data, but it certainly is a piece of the pie that is high intent, extremely specific, and also can be, can be mined for a lot of rich information. And it just helps. I think sales people understand the game better, and. As a result, it helps marketers, help sales, help sales be easier. And I think the other piece of it that we see too is you and I probably have both experienced this 1000s of times. But it is the fact that, I mean, there was a study that came up probably 15 years ago of how far down the sales process a prospect is before they talk to sales. So that that plays into a lot of things. From a marketing standpoint, it plays into community, plays into advocacy. Word of mouth is like one of those holy grail but also leads directly into product, like the Adil Saleh 20:39 product has to be found that is can is a new emerging strategy that they can apply. Like a lot of founders and funding teams, they're generating high quality content on social networks, especially LinkedIn, for B to B, SAS and on blogs like substack has come along big. The last, I would say, one year, lot of folks that I see writing continuously, like consistently, like every newsletter every week Nick Wassenberg 21:01 Exactly. So Nick Wassenberg 21:04 I think you got to be the nowadays, you have to be opinionated, you have to be bold, and you have to have grounded information that is not that is based on solving real customer problems, in the problems that they identify as their highest priority problems, as well as the problems that they haven't thought about much. There's a there's a there's a role for marketing and sales to play there, and founders to play too. So gotta understand them first, in every layer, every every bit of detail and data helps. I think. Adil Saleh 21:32 I love the fact that you're now seeing the change, traditional change in marketing to sales relation, which is like marketing's job is to make things easier for sales and make point them to write directions using all this data, all these signals, all this intent, all this contextual information, all that they can enable the prospecting pipeline or VCCS organization to, You know, excel at scale. So now thinking about Claude as, of course, one of the first movers in the category. And now I was thinking as chief executive officer, what do you think is going to make you really, really excited this year? Is it a product feature? Is it something sitting on the roadmap, and like any funds that you're going to raise an industry or market trying to penetrate what is it? Nick Wassenberg 22:27 I think it, is it, there's the there's the Nick Wassenberg 22:34 the inputs, and then those will lead to the outputs. One of the things that I try and emphasize is that for marketers that think about, I have this lead number, I have this revenue number, or whatever is great and is, is an important framing, but they have to think through it in terms of all the inputs first. And the inputs are what you control every day, and what's what's cool, and what I'm excited about for driving those inputs is the ability for marketers to synthesize hard word to say, synthesize real information and make it, make it more accessible, and, like I said, remove some of the friction. So I could envision a marketer saying, we are about to enter this new market. We're going to go after aerospace. And I as a company, we've never gone there before, and we have to think about it in kind of the early adopter curve, we have a product, whether it's coudes or whatever, there's a new market that we want to go after the acceleration of how smart I can get about aerospace in this example, has gone from needing to go out and do a bunch of customer conversations and synthesize all that data, and there's just that manual friction, that manual process, I think you can use some of the research tools to get a lot of the way there, not all the way not it's not a replacement for having in depth customer conversations and in depth prospect conversations, but you can show up more informed, for sure. And I think to not show up more informed to have to ask better questions and get more information directly out of the prospect or customer's mouth is super important. So I look at things like the research components that are in some of these tools today, and where they could go next, and how in depth they could do they can be. And then you look at like notebook LM that can then put it in a podcast format, or put it in some kind of easily consumable format, and deliver that information that's synthesized in a way that's very consumable and sticky and all that stuff. And I think it just accelerates how fast we can learn about new things and like that, that the inputs are probably what I get most excited about. The outputs will come from that. I'm a true believer in that, like marketers that are educated on the markets that they're trying to tell stories to always do better, like there's always an advantage there. They have to be creative and they have to think outside the norms. But it's also like, it's clear when you're talking to somebody that has a. Level of experience and knows the customer well. And I think that shows up in marketing, it shows up in video, it shows up in all these channels, and then that earns you the right to have strong opinions, which is what people's attention so, yeah, research side is super exciting right now. I think, yeah, Adil Saleh 25:18 I was also thinking like, of course, with all of this knowledge and experiences. And of course, I'm sure I'm gonna take some we have a book about so we shared, like we pick on books with the different people on the podcast. And you know, of course, you're more a marketing and sales guys, so you're gonna be sharing some of your best books that did you give? And also, I was thinking that, why don't you do a podcast? Like, there is so much that, like in the past, so many years, you have evolved, or, like, as a marketing leader, and you have seen the change and implemented those changes across different organization of different nature and different categories, that gives you a diverse exposure, which I can see I'm learning like, it's more like for me to learn from you, from people like you. So why don't you do a podcast like you're the other side of the table. Nick Wassenberg 26:09 We actually have done at Cludo. We did a, we did, like, a pilot series last year, and the reason we did that was, I was having all these interesting conversations with prospects and customers and partners. We partner with a lot of web development agencies and web development shops, and along with, alongside CMS providers and whatnot. So I was just having a lot of interesting conversations. So I said, Let's just record them and put a mic on, and you were you mentioned earlier, like the, do we need to make it fancy, or the, just about the content. So we kind of, I think we kind of rode the middle there, so we've done a little bit of that. I think, like, there's a lot out there too. That's part of the biggest like, not dilemmas, but like things that marketers need to think through is, I can create something really, really great, or that's going to be insightful. How do I distribute it? Which is the oldest kind of like a question in the book, right? It's like the distribution often wins. So how do, if I think about marketing as a product, how do I distribute that product effectively? What am I actually trying to distribute it? What's the what's the purpose? What's the goal of that, if I do a podcast, is it actually for lead gen? Is it for people that already know us and are just need some community built around them that's maybe takes on a different tone. Are people really going to like strangers, going to listen to me to be educated on some specific topic? Then if that's the case, I need to be really educated myself, and I need to do the research like we just talked about. So I think there's different forms we'll I think we'll revisit video or interview style or podcast or something like that, in in 2025 but I think they're just fun to do, and I think there's value in them. I listen to them all the time, maybe more a very mix, not just business ones, not just sales and marketing ones. So I think there's, there's diversity in your inputs that matters too. Adil Saleh 28:00 Yeah, absolutely. I like that. You know, of course, goal is super important. You need to make sure that you're aligned with why you're doing like, why is why is so important to figure out the why. So, what is that book that you want to suggest today? Nick Wassenberg 28:15 I actually, whenever I talk to somebody about business and about sales and marketing and about like, typically they have they have some if I'm talking to them, they have some problem that they're trying to some puzzle they're trying to solve. Sometimes it's really entrenched. Sometimes it's like in the moment. But I reflect quite often on the book called The hard thing about hard things Ben Horowitz from Henrys and Horowitz, it but it's gonna this might be kind of a strange reason. He goes very in depth with some of his challenges early on, and it's all about over overcoming them, and I think recognizing, at times, some of the absurdity of how many things can go right or wrong in any given moment, and how to think through those things, and how to rely on others, and how to build a team, and like all these different pieces in it, part of it, part of the reflection, as I revisit that book, is like things can always be more complex and difficult, and the what it actually does is something that I've given advice to people before, like, If you were to make a list of all the problems you're trying to solve today, like, all those little things that you're trying to, like, figure out, whether it's sales, marketing, a specific deal, getting some terms and conditions figured out, like, all the little nuanced things. If you wrote all those down and then came back to them a month later that list, you wouldn't even remember what they were. You'd be like, Oh, we were dealing with that in that moment. So so much of it is in the moment and not lasting, that to get too hung up on those things, you have to be detail oriented. You have to be as a as a founder, as a salesperson, as a marketer, that's that's effective. You have to know your numbers. You have to be detail oriented. I'm not saying that you can just wash it all. Way, we also keep the bigger, longer view in mind, which is hard, it's hard for leaders to do at times, and it's hard for it's hard to convey and inspire people with that longer term view consistently, like that's part of it, too. So that's a great I think it's a great read. I go back to it from time to time. Part, partially because things can always be more complicated and worse in some ways, and it's it's okay, like, yeah. So Adil Saleh 30:29 as as more experiences come at you, a lot of these books and a lot of pages and a lot of incidents from those books make start making more sense. And then you go back to those books. One of these books I talk about is never spread the difference for emotional intelligence by Chris was, he was a FBI investigator back in the years, and he, of course, narrated by a really good writer, but great, great, great book for emotional intelligence and having real, real time communication with the brain, like what people are thinking during the conversation, the gestures, All of this. Is more for like sales and psychology, but, you know, it helps you every bit, like in everyday communication and every day dealing. It's more about, you know, you are either on the on the other side of the table, or you're on the defense team. You are always dealing sales every single day, Nick Wassenberg 31:19 exactly. I think one of the that makes me think of another thing that I I've told people about, and this is going to be, this is going to sound like way out there, way left field, but there's actually a podcast. There's the one, one podcast I never miss, and it's called the treatment, and it's by Elvis Mitchell KCRW, a radio station out in LA he interviews like the best actors, actresses, directors, a lot of people in movies. And I know that has nothing to do directly with marketing and sales, but the thing that he does that nobody else does that I'm impressed by every time I hear it, and I hear it quite often. When I listen to his show, these interviews, there'll be an interview person like maybe it's Christian Bale, or someone like that tier of person will will say, Well, he'll ask a question and or make an observation. And Christian Bale will say, no one has ever picked up on that before. Or that question is so in like, the question strikes the interview subject as so deep in truly understanding them that it's remarkable. And they stop, they like, pause, and they have a moment of like, this is freaking me out a little bit. This is, this is a lot, and it makes me think, rethink about myself in a deep way, and it shows an appreciation for the work they put in and all of those things. So the treatment, Elvis Mitchell, I recommend it to everybody, because it's so like different in that way, I've never seen anybody have those kind of questions. And it goes back to your point around emotional intelligence and really being in the moment with someone, and having a depth of wanting to truly understand where they're coming from, and also having a point of view, like making your own observations, and not just being like a tell I'm going to be it's a one way conversation. I want to I want you to tell me how the I want you to tell me how the world works. Let's talk about how the world works together. I think those are Adil Saleh 33:07 better. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, yeah. It was really nice catching up with you, Nick. And, of course, as you mentioned, like some lot of preparation, and it's, I think a lot of people don't believe that it's doing like 2020 30 episodes a month with all across different market leaders, SaaS, founders from across different stages of their businesses. It's so hard, it takes a lot of preparation, and you know, to do the justice with it. That's why we didn't do any episodes from September 24 to January 25 but again, there's, there's a lot to pick up and a lot to learn, a lot to, you know, learn from people like you. And that's why I'm blessed. You know, that's why we never wanted to be a media company. We never charged anybody single dollar. And we just wanted to, you know, create this. First off, I wanted to learn from these people, and then I wanted to pass that information on with a team that will do all the entertaining blogs, newsletter, of course, they'll bother you a little bit or the email regarding all of this planning on the content calendars. Until then, it was really, really nice meeting you and you know, quite inspiring. Nick Wassenberg 34:14 Yeah, great. Good to talk to you. Thanks. Nick Wassenberg 34:17 Absolutely. Bye. Bye. Have a good rest of your day. Thanks.