Ep # 176: Spotting At-Risk Accounts Without a Fancy Health Score ft. Former Francesca Smedberg (VP of Product, Rillion)

Francesca Smedberg 00:05 So just because you have a good tech, it doesn't mean that you actually can build the right product. And also if you have a very good product, it's neither enough. You really need to build your distribution as well. Intro 00:21 Welcome to Across The Funnel, where we dig into concrete Go-To-Market moves across sales, customer success, and account management so you can build revenue that lasts. Brought to you by Hyperengage and Dextego. Adil Saleh 00:36 Greetings everyone, this is Across The Funnel. As you know, we've been doing this new series of the Hyperengage Podcast by the name of Across The Funnel, and it's gonna pick up the pace real good with different founders and technologies coming from different verticals this quarter and next. And of course by the end of this year, we'll have another series going on. Thank you very much for always being patient and listening to these conversations that are always candid, spontaneous, and people sharing real problems, and not just the successes. Today we're gonna be talking about product and how customer success is now dependent, more than ever, on product. Product teams are living closer to the customers and their success more than ever, so that's why we were talking about product, having these product leaders from all across the world. One of the fastest-growing companies she's been a part of, as a former VP of Product, really in this out of Stockholm, Sweden, serving accounts payable process software with accounts teams, and doing it at scale, and doing everything product there. So thank you very much, Francesca, for taking the time. Francesca Smedberg 01:50 Yeah, thank you for having me here. I really look forward to our conversation. Adil Saleh 01:55 Love that. I know that you've been in these product roles for almost a decade now, and you recently exited. So how do you see this notion of having the commercial teams work with the product closer than ever, and now the decisions that you make in the product are definitely having a revenue impact, and of course direct sales impact? How do you see this notion, especially after this automation enabled by AI and keeping the teams work asynchronously, and everything, so where you're at with that as a leader? Francesca Smedberg 02:32 Yeah, definitely it is super important for a product to be close to the business. That's mainly the work of product: to build product that can actually create value for customer, as well as the company can monetize and drive the growth. I think I was very lucky in my career because I started in a startup, so we were all very commercial. From my perspective, I was born as a commercial product leader, and I came to product from commercial and insight experience before. So I think that is super good that many companies are going in this direction. I think that the transformation of the software into more subscription based has made this relation between revenue retention much closer to product, so that product leaders are, I mean, CPO roles and VP roles, for many companies, has been something that has been there for a long time. But it's also a much newer role compared to CTOs, and in some companies, product leadership is reporting into CTO or operations. But it's quite clear that many companies are doing this shift, and I think it's a very positive thing because it allows the team to be very close to the business and drive the product so that it can actually, in first place, help the customer and solve their problems, but also finding a way on how the company can leverage the product to build a sustainable business on what you develop. Adil Saleh 04:21 Absolutely. Because at the end of the day, you mentioned the subscription based economy. It's all about seeing customers as they're buying the product not to use it because it has certain features. They are buying the product to solve their problem. So when it comes to solving their problems, that is a more customer centric approach, slightly different than core product development. As much as all these systems and leaders that enable the product leaders or product teams to integrate with that customers mindset, it elevates the whole function. At the end of the day, when it comes to living in the system of truth for customer facing tooling, we just talked about the tech stack like CRMs. Everything is more about being connected in the workflow, and a lot of these categories that we've seen recently got merged, and now they are working as analog or as the same function. This is crazy times when you see cross-functional transformation across B2B SaaS only, subscription based economy. I’m glad that we met today and I got to know about Rillion. We're gonna talk a little bit about your role there. You spent almost three years, that's quite a long time with so much opportunity and so much more that you can contribute as a leader. Now thinking about Rillion, I know that customer success, as you mentioned earlier, you've been more commercial and you were staying closer to the deal side of things and contract side of things. So now what kind of systems and processes you had that can measure the success around onboarding? If you talk about onboarding, then we can carry it forward. Francesca Smedberg 06:20 Yes. Mainly, if you think about the context of Rillion, it's a very mature company. It was founded in the 90s, and today is the result of a lot of different mergers and acquisitions, so it has a comprehensive portfolio and a lot of complexity. It was a journey to transform the company toward being more customer centric, more forward-looking. And when it comes to one of the key things from the product team perspective, when I started it was to build this understanding about the customer. We were struggling in the beginning because the team was reactive, as it's not very uncommon in B2B SaaS, but they were struggling to make impact. So we had to define clear priorities. To do that, we started working very close to both the teams in terms of understanding what was the obstacle for the sales team, the customer success team, the professional services team, which was actually responsible for the onboarding, and also start directly working with the customer so that we could go deeper than just understanding all the features they wanted, but understanding why they wanted this feature, what they could do that they could not do together, and try to find some dimensions that were bigger than the actual feature, so that we could think about broader themes to work on to really make the difference. Onboarding is definitely one of the areas that we're looking at. The first challenge was to bring a common definition about what is our onboarding, where it starts, which teams are involved. To sketch the onboarding journey, define the pains, and understand. Since we came from different companies, different mergers, there were still dependencies, or specific people running the onboarding. So it was about unifying according to best practice and defining that part. From there, you can work to productify those things, but it really starts with the collaboration: what are the touch points of the customer, how can we make them smooth as possible, and in all those touch points trying to find measures that can help you towards making that experience as easy as possible, and also accepting because when I started, we had this idea about very streamlined onboarding, which is what we aim at, but also we need to like see that when you work with ERP, it's one of the most complex system that you have in the company. It's very heavy in terms of data. So ours, like in those kind of system, of course you want to make the process very simple, but there will be need of touchpoint and solving the complexity. So you need to be very customer focus in terms that they should do the least effort, you should provide them as the easiest way. But neither think that everything can be done in one click because our complex decision to be made. And there were AI helped us a lot. We had super good documentation internally in terms of having the information updated, which was already great, but maybe it was not as digestible for a customer. Very heavy, was a lot of detail. Maybe written more towards an internal target, but having those data, it was a very good ground for us to start leveraging AI to transform the data to over the customer. So we launch, one of our launch was a rally, which is a AI assistant. And that enable us to take that step much faster. To provide good information during the onboarding in a chat interface rather than having documentation that you have to read, understand, and try. You could have it there in the product when you need it. And I think that kind of interaction is super good because normally like this kind of onboarding, when you go through the onboarding with the personas, it's a certain time and onboarding can take some time because maybe internally you want to do it stepwise, making sure that everything is working fine. And then when you are there, you start actually working. You may have forgot everything that you have gone through in the morning. So this kind of accessibility in the product that you can ask your question in the way you want and not have to digest the information from somebody else, that was a very good way to do it and super good that we can do it with AI today. Adil Saleh 11:39 Absolutely. I love the way that you mentioned that you had a documentation because to be able to implement AI or automation you need to have a really strong hold onto your processes, internal documentation, knowledge base and all of that. And at some point, we’re also like a very small startup, a tech company. And in the beginning, the only thing that we started using Notion and we had like three every single document from like even this podcast and all of this, every document cited. And then then came CharGPT-4. And we started to articulate this document into some sort of information that's gonna automate some of this stuff. And it started hallucinating all of this because documentation was not in the more workflow or strategic kind of manner. So then we started learning, Hey, this is how you gotta do the documentation to help AI learn your workflows and then come up with different automation options. And then you can use third party tooling too. So I love the way that you talked through th Francesca Smedberg 12:40 and also because of course I'm maybe a little bit too optimistic when I saw the documentation was perfect. I think it was a good ground in terms of how the product works. But then it also enable us through the, seeing which question they ask and like which question do we get right and so on to improve it where it mattered the most, rather than really thinking about everything. And then it becomes a so big project that normally company cannot really drive that forward. Adil Saleh 13:13 Yeah. Appreciate it that you've been pretty explanatory when it comes to onboarding and what kind of initiatives have you taken. I know that product leader has more to do with the onboarding. There's a lot of these sales leaders, they will come banging, Hey, you build this feature. You build this product and tell us like what's gonna be the disrupt, how we can make, sell for plug and play. And I love the way that you mentioned that it's always about making itself sure plug and play with some of the complex systems. It's more important sometimes to make sure that the customer is the center of all of this, and you are working as partner and trying to live, takes off their shoulder instead of just telling them, Hey, this is plugin tech. Go learn it. And do all the integration, implementation, all of that. Sometimes as a startup you have to nail things for one segment, one vertical, and then you go for scale. I know even this today is not possible, like it does so much of AI. You go serve healthcare, you go serve financial services, consulting firms, law firms, they have so scattered processes and information that it's so hard for you to productize or simplify or standardize or have a playbook. I think it's one of the GTM strategies that we have learned ourselves is to, if you really want to go to that product led sales or product led motion, growth motion model, you just need to laser focus on one industry that you gotta do it that well. So now I know that onboarding has been the biggest concern with a lot of these companies serving these kind of verticals. And once the onboarding is done, customers dwell inside the product using the product, different modules, different features. So what was your process? I know that shouldn't be the question from you, but I know you've been working cross-functional as a small team, so you might have some information for Rillion that they have to track success across these stages. I'm talking about a customer life cycle, like post onboarding. The biggest thing that how pass fastest if we can deliver value, how we can enable them to adopt to the platform, use the platform potentially so we can retain them and hit the bottom line goal, which is of course revenue, customer retention, and then we can talk about an expansion. But I think retention is good enough topic that we can explore more. So what kind of systems and technologies you had in place? I know that you recently exited, so from a AI standpoint it's not too outdated. So what was the success criteria or success measurement post onboarding to enable the next KPIs, which is the biggest retention. Francesca Smedberg 15:50 I think there, it's super interesting that you asked because it was actually, it was not one metric, but it was a very hard work where we were very close across the organization, but especially also customer success and product in different direction. One was about really work together in terms we did like to build, our, as you say, the customer. We have had customer for a long time, but maybe not really help them to leverage the complete product functionalities. So it was a lot about understanding what they were using. And we worked quite hard with our new price and packaging, that was directly linked to automation. So how could we help the customer to start with a basic package and then adding, like driving automation to more functionality. And this was like I think it's super important if you work with product and customer success to find a common goal. Like if we have the NRR goal to drive that for our customer, we had exactly the same goals Adil Saleh 17:04 did it completely solve the problem. Having a segmented or stand on pricing for lower packages, for low usage customers, smaller customers, bigger packages, more models Francesca Smedberg 17:14 we did that around in terms of aligning. We had very different pricing structures since normally when you have company that have operate for a long time, you may have some differentiation. So we actually really create a good ground where we moved every customer to the same price and packaging package and also the same contracts and giving us much more easy also from a product side to really drive the product forward and not be linked to specific adult contracts. So I think that was successful, but it was not fast. Like it took some time first to understand which pricing packaging strategy we would have, and then to build actually the customer success team and then driving it forward. And I think that was really good. And then also we worked really hard to create a playbook, automation playbook with best practice and those kind of specific metrics were used and customer success to actually follow the automation and making sure that the customer has clear goal and we're achieving the right goals. Adil Saleh 18:41 Okay. So you mentioned customer success team. I know that like really was there for almost like 30 years now and quite a long time, like three decades, and they've seen everything. So now thinking about customer success function, that is only responsible for revenue retention, customer retention. Did you guys have that function there, like VP of CS core for that role? Francesca Smedberg 19:02 Yeah, so it's a VP of customer success and then customer success. But that function was quite recent, so it was set in place approximately when I started it was like starting to grow. And before Adil Saleh 19:14 no, no, that also Francesca Smedberg 19:16 personal service and support. Adil Saleh 19:19 Because I think predominantly the success function is to make sure they enable onboarding, adoption, and drive retention off of qualitative signals, like not just the product usage that what they're saying, what they're requesting on support and engagements that they have. Any stakeholders that have changed their position or champions and all of that. So there are so many layers to analyzing or having a 360 view on a customer lifecycle to forecast health. So did you guys have any kind of technology, any kind of internal tool to make sure that's small. Francesca Smedberg 19:53 I think we built that. We were in a journey of build our data in different sites so that we'll build it to it. So actually there was a tool that the customer success started that we link with our product data as well. And I actually don't know if there was a route forward, but it was there for us. The main focus was to really making sure that each customer could achieve the value, maximize the value. Retention is not as a big challenge in terms that system as Rillion are quite heavy to, especially for the mid large segment, we have a broader portfolio. It's not a big issue because the decision takes quite a long time and the change is quite a big effort. So in terms of retention, that category is quite stable. So that part is not as important. Of course, it's important. We worked a lot to have signals when we could mention that this customer is at risk. So in terms of product and customer success, we had follow up meeting every month or second week depending on the product to really go through which are the customer at risk. What is what are we seeing the data? What is indicating? Or the qualitative data from the customer success person. And then making sure that we could have a proactive approach toward those customers. Adil Saleh 21:29 Okay. I cannot agree more that when it comes to large enterprises, change management is the big thing and whatever product that you have deployed, of course, if that is not good enough, it's not gonna land well with enterprises. But if you are working with enterprises like Salesforce is the largest market cap with enterprise, just because user experience wise there are lot of CRMs that are better, but just the stickiness of the product and the amount of change it would take for an enterprise to move to a new tooling is what they make money off of. Generally. It's just as simple. So throughout this three years that you've been working in the product, and this is the last question on Rillion, and then we go more towards what's you're aiming at, what's gonna make you excited this year. As a VP of product, I know it's more about product and driving growth through product and setting the new goals for the vision of the product and do the new features initiated that are product centric. But when it comes to SMB to mid-market because now it's of course every category is consolidating. New businesses are coming. There are 600 million plus on LinkedIn. If you talk about small to midsize companies that segment, how's really an approaching towards, like from a go-to-market standpoint, apart from the enterprises? Francesca Smedberg 22:55 You mean the SMB segment? Adil Saleh 22:58 Yeah. SMB just slightly, early mid-market company. I would say series A Francesca Smedberg 23:01 Yeah we have a portfolio, which is like we had mainly two products, one targeting SMB segment and there we have a completely different dynamics in terms of retention as well, because of course it's not Adil Saleh 23:17 Okay, different success that had the bigger books and you know Francesca Smedberg 23:20 Exactly and much more like a smaller company, but also very fast implementation, but also easier to churn. And then another product is more targeting the middle, large segment. Not really enterprise, but toward enterprise where, so they are, yeah, that's the portfolio mainly. So of course very different dynamics in those two segments. And so they're like in terms also of positioning, especially in the dynamics on the market SMB segment of course, much more at risk of ERP growing up and eating up that part. So there was a lot of work in terms of how do we positioning within the new upcoming AP solution that are much simpler. And that dynamic was not there for the mid large segment, so definitely very different dynamics, was that your question or? Adil Saleh 24:24 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, of course the dynamics even for SMB might change, industry vertical and then product to product. And of course the way you approach Go-to-Market for SMB becomes really tricky because you need to make sure that you optimize time-to-value for people to adopt the platform because for a lot of products, you can make that product smaller productizing just like you were approaching for SMBs. But for a lot of products it's not sometimes to some point possible to actually craft the right product package for smaller companies, but they want companies to be bigger to grow with them. So Notion had the same model in the beginning, like Notion this documentation tool, their vision was more towards like, hey, we'll grow with smaller startups. But then they realized like it's more about bigger teams while we are serving the smaller teams and have like maybe digital touch customer success motion in that. So we're similar to that. Francesca Smedberg 25:20 That's something really like this very different dynamics in terms of pricing sensitivity of the two target. We really saw it when we were working on our pricing and packaging, starting by having like very similar price and packaging, but really understanding that we need to adapt to different dynamics. Because it's really different, as you say, much more price sensitive and also much more easier to make like change the decision. So you really have to work in different way. And also like the actual persona for us using the product can be it was very different, like from serving bigger like AP team from very few individuals. So there are very, a lot of dynamics, they're different. And also the sales motion is very different in term of inbound versus outbound. The length of the sales cycle is also very different. So it's almost as driving like two companies within one because many things are not working and operating in the same way. Adil Saleh 26:32 I can't agree more on this. Now, Francesca, I know that this is the golden time for a product leader to work in a fast paced environment. Even any environment that is not fast paced, that means they're not doing anything big enough with this AI and everything product wise. So how do you see yourself as a product leader now looking for the chief product officer role, and wish you good luck with that. A lot of companies listening to this would definitely know now, once this episode goes live, how do you see yourself transitioning? I know that Rillion may or might not have given you that opportunity because they were working more in the enterprise and then working like maybe a sort of a legacy technology, I'm just assuming. But now thinking of a product leader going into a new age AI company, or a company that is trying to be AI native, that's the only gonna be two options for you. Because a company that is willing to have AI-first approach or doing things that are feature product initiatives really fast. Or a company that is AI-native star. So what do you prefer and how do you think that you're ready for it? How do you think that okay. I mean, yeah, really. And I've done this. I've been there. So what is your kind of thought process now while being open for store? Francesca Smedberg 27:52 Super good question. And I think for me, I really took some time to understand, okay, what are my drivers and I am a hundred percent or more sure that I want to continue in product. And for me it is really about being in a context where you can drive innovation. So I'm not looking for optimizing something, but to really create innovation either in this established company that wants to take the step forward or a more newer company. And for me it's that the thing that is really, it's easier to build because of AI, but also because of many other things if you compare to 20 years ago. But it's really still hard to make innovation happen. And that's where I really, that's why I love to work in product because I think that even if you have done things several time, it's never the same story. Like the principle about how you create a strong product team and product strategy and focus are similar. No matter, like if I look at my experience, if I was in a startup, if I was growing in a global business with GFK or Ipsos or as a part of more mature company as Rillion, but then to make them work in reality. And really find the way forward. You don't know what it is and nobody knows in the company. So you have to work with this learning culture where you can step by step find out what we don't know and what do we need to know to go to the next step and be very experiment driven. So I really look for a company that wants to apply this way of working because I think that, like the customer being very strong in driving customer insights and understanding your business where it is, is the only way to build actually an advantage towards customers, towards competitors. And it doesn't matter, this will be a long term advantage. If you really build a team that's able to drive this forward, you will be sustain your product and your business in a good way. So that's the like what I'm looking for, I'm quite open in terms of domain. I work in market research with FMCG retailer and in FinTech, and I think that it takes like effort to learn the domain, but if it's not a super like compliance domain where you need specific, then I think you can learn. But the product knowledge that's harder to learn and product, I think it's a hard work, but that's why I like it. Adil Saleh 30:39 No, absolutely. I'm not sure if you would agree this with me or not, but in this time, in 2026, building a product has been the easiest than ever, and building the right product has been the hardest than ever. Do you agree or no? Francesca Smedberg 31:00 Yeah, no, definitely. I agree. And I mean, I think that it's AI is not different from other innovation as a like McKinsey report, I think it was last year in autumn, was around, I don't know if it was 80, 90% of AI project fail. It can sound surprising, but if you look, I come from FMCG and there, like the rate of new product in FMCG failing, it's about 70, 80%. And if you look at the startup failing, it's like, I dunno, 90% maybe. So I mean, it's the same thing. It is same dynamic. So just because you have a good tech, it doesn't mean that you actually can build the right product. And also if you have a very good product, it's neither enough. You really need to build your distribution as well. So you need to have the two things at the same time. And all of this is of course complex. So I agree with you. Adil Saleh 32:00 Yeah. Great. So now thinking of industry verticals, as you mentioned, you are open to exploring more industry verticals and that's gonna give, seeing product in one industry vertical and seeing as a product leader in an entirely different industry vertical, of course. What kind of learning do you have, like, Do you think that you're gonna have, like in terms of product leadership decision making initiatives. Like as we sales leader, we think like, hey, selling that's a mobile phone might be different than selling a digital product. Or maybe selling a healthcare SaaS might be different than selling an agriculture SaaS. So like we sales people, like we all think of, Hey, let's explore more. Let's explore more industry verticals, like more challenges, more experiences. This is what we always long for. So what is your thought process? Francesca Smedberg 32:56 I'm thinking that in terms of thing, I, I'm, if things that I already see, I'm not like a good fit in terms of it's a super heavy compliance like banks and so on. Not, I think we're Adil Saleh 33:19 cyber security like Francesca Smedberg 33:21 Yeah, exactly. For exactly that part. It will be not my fit. And also like the complex hardware products where there is also an hardware part, that's also something. So I'm really thinking about the digital. And I think like my experience before being with understanding how consumer and shopper make decision. That's what I did during my 13 years at Norm. It helps me a lot in this purchase decision, like trying to understand. So in that sense, I think that as long and is not a domain that is super like that really requires a deep, deep understanding that is impossible to achieve in a few months. I think that's brings me like, yeah, I see it quite openly. And I'm more like, I'm very curious as a person to really understand the different context. And that's like working in market research. I always work with different customers and it's about like really going in and try to understand the new context. And then when you think about how do we behave as a user, as a buyer. We are not so different. Actually of course there is difference if you are buying like more towards FMCG consumer products or if you are buying like enterprise solution or business to business product and so on, there is a difference. But at the end, there is a human behind and Adil Saleh 34:56 people buy from people. Francesca Smedberg 34:58 So to understand that, I think you have a quite good possibility to do it in very different industries. Adil Saleh 35:05 Love that. It's so hard to find these days with people with such diverse product experience that it has also an experience with the commercial side of things like building relationships and building relationship with FMCB. So I found it so diverse and I wish you really good luck with your new role. By the way, quick question that came, I'm a curious person. Might have noticed. So what keeps you in Stockholm, Sweden. Tell us more about Stockholm, Sweden. How tech is like, why you're staying with technologies out of Sweden. What's different about there? Like I know my last job, and that was the only job that I had back in 2019. I exited. Ever since then, I'm doing my own business, struggling. I don't know even how to write a letter, like a format or resume. But that last started was out of Sweden. Content City was a social media marketing platform. And that was the only and first time that I got to know a little bit about the tech. So for our audience, just let us know why Francesca is still married to working with technologies, especially in Sweden. The last role that I look at and also what is about Sweden. Francesca Smedberg 36:22 That’s a good question. There could be own podcast, I think this one. But I am here actually because I got married to a Swede that I met in Spain. And so that's what brought me here. But I really, like in general, I feel very lucky that I come in tech because it fits my personality very well in being curious and learning new stuff. But I think I really appreciate like the Swedish culture when they come to giving opportunities to people. So I come from Italy, and it's a very entrepreneurial country, I think, but still, I remember when I came here as a young person and when I started with a startup, I got so much like opportunities in terms of really doing things. And I think in that sense, Italy, it's more like traditional. Maybe you come and you do very junior work. And here in Sweden I really got a lot of opportunities, like even at the beginning of my career, when I didn't have experience. And also I think there is a fantastic, of course there is always more to do, but I think as a woman has also been a great to be in Sweden. I have two kids, both time, When I was in maternity leave, I go to promotion when I came back. And I think these things do not happen in the same way in Italy, even if things are changing everywhere. Adil Saleh 37:45 Never does in U.S Francesca Smedberg 37:48 And so I think it's, I really like the culture in terms of being very open and also very entrepreneurial. I think they are, especially in Stockholm now, even more tech companies popping up. And I think it's about this way of being very collaborative and not too like having too many layers, not too formal. And I think that is a part of the Swedish company. So I really thrive in working in Sweden and I really recommend it as a place to live. Adil Saleh 38:30 Yeah. Great. I love your journey. Like the way you mentioned 30 years, you came firsthand Francesca Smedberg 38:38 20, 20, 20 years. Adil Saleh 38:40 20 years. You came as a young girl and you mentioned that fact that it's not easy for somebody starting their journey in a country and because that's a pivotal, a lot of countries that I see of moving out, I have a seven month old. First time parent. It's pretty challenging, but she's a daughter, so slightly better, I'm assuming son would've been a lot more challenging. So now thinking we are now thinking of moving out and a lot of these countries that we evaluate, they're good enough, but they're not good for starting their career. Like my wife, she wants to, great point you mentioned that Sweden is one of the countries that you can, as a woman, young woman, coming as an immigrant, you can really start your period and have equal better opportunities compared to many other countries starting out. So one last question before I set you free, is that what makes you excited in this 2026? You don't have to relate so much to AI if you don't want to, because everybody talks about AI, like what makes you excited as a professional going into this year. We just started like, let's call January as a buffer, honeymoon time and start this year from February. Francesca Smedberg 39:51 I think like what I'm excited not about AI. I have to mention in some way because it's affecting so much like my work life. But I think what I'm excited about, this hype that is turning down now, like, hype that AI will solve everything in more to really have AI in applied in a way that can actually leverage good results. Especially I'm thinking that it's, how can I say this? It's a lot I think about understanding how can you create a collaboration workflow with AI and you and with your team and AI with your organization. And like how do you put your touch points so that you make sure that you can actually get better to what you're doing, but not get like faster to doing something in a not good way. So I think that these things about really looking at what humans will bring and what AI can do. And if I look at my own way of working or I have been experimenting a lot with Cloud Core and different things, and I think it's really good if you find a way, there are things that I really don't like to do and I can find a good flow to do them faster. But there are also things that I could do maybe faster, but that's where I maybe are my edge or my really where I provide the good value and it's important to keep that and not become lazy and let AI do everything because at the end, AI, it's average intelligence and then we will do the same decision. But I think there is a very, like what I hope AI is bringing, especially in product, I mean, that gives an extreme opportunity to work more with discovery, customer insights and things that sometime are hard to fit in if you don't have the right contest as a product manager, my giving all this opportunity. I hope that it will bring more of good product in many companies. And I think there is no reason of not doing it now. And AI is really providing good tools and the opportunity to do that and to learn, even if we don't have, you don't have leader, that help you to learn what good product is about. Adil Saleh 42:34 Yo. Yes. That was so powerful. Like thinking of AI as a fine balance between efficiency and speed is going to be as I understood is going to be the next thing that will shield into building right products and customer experiences and beat anything. Having a skillset or capability, a human capability to understand that balance and have that balance is super critical. Because I was, as I mentioned, like I was also using Cloud Core, building the skill and build my entire skill, how to disconnect, automate everything. And then I realized like, Okay, well, is that not good enough? Or, my expectations were so high, maybe my expectations were so high, so now I have to do this, this to make, maybe fine tune it and all of that. So love that. Thank you very much Francesca, for taking the time and sharing your insights and getting to know you more was above everything else. And thank you for being who you are and I wish you best for all the things that you're gonna be making huge impact anywhere you go. And yeah, best of luck for that. Francesca Smedberg 43:44 Thank you very much for today. It has been really interesting to talk to you. Adil Saleh 43:50 Likewise. Bye-bye. Francesca Smedberg 43:51 Bye-bye. Outro 43:52 Thank you very much for listening to Across the Funnel. If you got one useful GTM idea out of this show today, please share this with a teammate and hit follow. Explore Hyperengage at hyperengage.io and Dextego at dextego.com.